Alec, you know reading and publishing your piece just now I had a thought. Often in our discussions of moral issues you like to say that something is an "objective evil" or that it is "objectively evil to put a gun to your friend’s head and pull the trigger."
But what I think you're really saying here when you talk about "objective evil" is "the Catholic Church's official perspective on this subject."
Because literally no action is "objectively" evil. Even murder and rape and genocide. ALL morality is entirely subjective. There is no "objective" position from which to determine good and evil as though we were measuring hot and cold. Not even the Bible since it is so widely open to interpretation. Morality is not at all like science, as you seem to be suggesting it is, that we can simply KNOW absolutely and objectively that one act is good or bad, just as my neurologist could look at my brain scans and determine I have epilepsy.
We can't really say that the atomic bombing was "objectively" evil for the same reason that you explain the Axis' side didn't think what they were doing was evil. We can't even say that the Holocaust was "objectively" evil. It requires someone to subjectively embrace a subjective, manmade moral value system in order to evaluate for themselves what is good or evil.
Hi David. As I see it, God provides the objectivity even if you only view him as the Logos, or the divine reason implicit in the cosmos. Thus, rape, murder, and genocide are objectively evil. The problem comes when we disagree on what’s the objective truth. Good Catholics, for example, can disagree about the use of the bombs, even though we agree that the Church holds the truth to its fullest. I am persuaded that the arguments against the bombs use on Japan most closely follow the true teachings of the Church. We must, in the end, follow our own informed consciences.
Our Judeo-Christian faith tradition would disagree with that. This tells us that God has given us the tools sufficient to seek and know the truth, namely our reason and faith. He's given us objective standards to follow. So, we can get far closer to the truth than merely "guessing." That's why its so important to inform our consciences and make the best determination we can on any matter of morality. That's also why it's vital to determine which faith tradition has the truth in its fullest and follow that.
But the “Judeo-Christian tradition” is not at all unified on Good and Evil and is in a perpetual debate and evolution about virtually everything which is why there are so many different churches and denominations.
As our Jewish sisters and brothers are fond of saying “Two Jews, three shuls.” Even among Catholics there is perpetual disagreement and debate. One liberal pope will disagree with things a previous conservative pope said and did. And it’s not like the Catholic Church of 2023 is going to agree with everything the Church of 1323 said and did. 😉
They do very much disagree about that. That is the very essence of what everyone disagrees about. "Faith" is about *guessing* what we *think* truth is not asserting that we *know for certain* what truth is.
As Christians we have faith that Christ died for our sins. We don't know for absolute certain that Christ died for our sins the way my doctor can know for absolute certain from looking at my brain scan that I have epilepsy.
I just have to disagree. Faith is about gaining certainty. I have far more certainty in my faith in Christ than I do in the educated opinions of human experts. I often have difficulties but never doubts.
He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
ORIGIN OF FAITH
1
First recorded in 1200–50; Middle English feith, from Anglo-French fed, Old French feid, feit, from Latin fidem, accusative of fidēs “trust,” derivative of fīdere “to trust”
Alec, you know reading and publishing your piece just now I had a thought. Often in our discussions of moral issues you like to say that something is an "objective evil" or that it is "objectively evil to put a gun to your friend’s head and pull the trigger."
But what I think you're really saying here when you talk about "objective evil" is "the Catholic Church's official perspective on this subject."
Because literally no action is "objectively" evil. Even murder and rape and genocide. ALL morality is entirely subjective. There is no "objective" position from which to determine good and evil as though we were measuring hot and cold. Not even the Bible since it is so widely open to interpretation. Morality is not at all like science, as you seem to be suggesting it is, that we can simply KNOW absolutely and objectively that one act is good or bad, just as my neurologist could look at my brain scans and determine I have epilepsy.
We can't really say that the atomic bombing was "objectively" evil for the same reason that you explain the Axis' side didn't think what they were doing was evil. We can't even say that the Holocaust was "objectively" evil. It requires someone to subjectively embrace a subjective, manmade moral value system in order to evaluate for themselves what is good or evil.
Hi David. As I see it, God provides the objectivity even if you only view him as the Logos, or the divine reason implicit in the cosmos. Thus, rape, murder, and genocide are objectively evil. The problem comes when we disagree on what’s the objective truth. Good Catholics, for example, can disagree about the use of the bombs, even though we agree that the Church holds the truth to its fullest. I am persuaded that the arguments against the bombs use on Japan most closely follow the true teachings of the Church. We must, in the end, follow our own informed consciences.
How does “the logos” make murder objectively evil?
There is a perfect, eternal, unquestionable answer to everything.
Yeah, but we can’t *really* know it until we’re dead. Before then we’re all just guessing.
Our Judeo-Christian faith tradition would disagree with that. This tells us that God has given us the tools sufficient to seek and know the truth, namely our reason and faith. He's given us objective standards to follow. So, we can get far closer to the truth than merely "guessing." That's why its so important to inform our consciences and make the best determination we can on any matter of morality. That's also why it's vital to determine which faith tradition has the truth in its fullest and follow that.
But the “Judeo-Christian tradition” is not at all unified on Good and Evil and is in a perpetual debate and evolution about virtually everything which is why there are so many different churches and denominations.
As our Jewish sisters and brothers are fond of saying “Two Jews, three shuls.” Even among Catholics there is perpetual disagreement and debate. One liberal pope will disagree with things a previous conservative pope said and did. And it’s not like the Catholic Church of 2023 is going to agree with everything the Church of 1323 said and did. 😉
They may disagree about many things, but not about whether we can know the truth in this life--that's what I was addressing.
They do very much disagree about that. That is the very essence of what everyone disagrees about. "Faith" is about *guessing* what we *think* truth is not asserting that we *know for certain* what truth is.
As Christians we have faith that Christ died for our sins. We don't know for absolute certain that Christ died for our sins the way my doctor can know for absolute certain from looking at my brain scan that I have epilepsy.
I just have to disagree. Faith is about gaining certainty. I have far more certainty in my faith in Christ than I do in the educated opinions of human experts. I often have difficulties but never doubts.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/faith
noun
confidence or trust in a person or thing:
faith in another's ability.
belief that is not based on proof:
He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
ORIGIN OF FAITH
1
First recorded in 1200–50; Middle English feith, from Anglo-French fed, Old French feid, feit, from Latin fidem, accusative of fidēs “trust,” derivative of fīdere “to trust”
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/faith_1#:~:text=%2Ffe%C9%AA%CE%B8%2F,do%20what%20has%20been%20promised
trust in somebody’s ability or knowledge; trust that somebody/something will do what has been promised