I would be curious how you deal with the cognitive dissonance of appreciating his artistic contributions while knowing he was a proud member of an entirely loathsome organization. I won't call him a pedophile because I can't know if that was acted upon but he certainly condoned pedophilia. I don't know if you read my post confessing I was a fan of his and got his autograph when I had the chance. That was 30 yrs ago before the internet so i didn't know any of these other things until many years later. I might not have waited in that long line... On the other hand I still listen to Michael Jackson while firmly believing he was an actual pedophile. That old thing about separating art from artist. But I don't revere and celebrate MJ as a person... I just listen to his music. If you'd rather not have all this as part of the post...please delete my comments... I won't be offended. 🙏
Is it not clear enough from the other selections on the list that I'm capable of learning form and drawing from people who have some seriously evil views and/or may have done some evil things?
And besides - Ginsberg made the influence on me when I was 10 years old and up through I was an undergrad. The point of the list is talking about the counterculture people who influenced my approach, not proclaiming a list of idols to worship as perfect people.
I don't condone Ginsberg and I don't agree with him or his general approach. However he was an advocate for "Free Speech" an actual "Free Speech Absolutist" he also did things for the sole purpose of getting attention and making people mad. Like I said I don't agree with any of that, but that's who he was.
Also there is an often not spoken about tend from the 1970s mainly in Europe that kind of softened and downplayed the damages caused by NAMBLA-type stuff. Back then just overall people tended to have more lax rules about older men and underage girls in "relationships" as well. We know better now and this is far from acceptable and the age of consent has gone up/there is more social taboo regarding this type of thing.
In the 1970s in and the US Europe you had all sorts of otherwise rational people jumping with pretty intensely horrible views regarding this subject.
To get a window into the thinking in Germany post war here is an example. Warring it's pretty horrible.
I am well aware.
I would be curious how you deal with the cognitive dissonance of appreciating his artistic contributions while knowing he was a proud member of an entirely loathsome organization. I won't call him a pedophile because I can't know if that was acted upon but he certainly condoned pedophilia. I don't know if you read my post confessing I was a fan of his and got his autograph when I had the chance. That was 30 yrs ago before the internet so i didn't know any of these other things until many years later. I might not have waited in that long line... On the other hand I still listen to Michael Jackson while firmly believing he was an actual pedophile. That old thing about separating art from artist. But I don't revere and celebrate MJ as a person... I just listen to his music. If you'd rather not have all this as part of the post...please delete my comments... I won't be offended. 🙏
Is it not clear enough from the other selections on the list that I'm capable of learning form and drawing from people who have some seriously evil views and/or may have done some evil things?
And besides - Ginsberg made the influence on me when I was 10 years old and up through I was an undergrad. The point of the list is talking about the counterculture people who influenced my approach, not proclaiming a list of idols to worship as perfect people.
Not the congenial response i was hoping for... Sorry to intrude. I'll delete my clearly unwelcome comments. Cheers.
I'm sorry, my response was intended in a congenial way. It is entirely reasonable and welcome of you to bring up the flaws of people on the list.
I don't condone Ginsberg and I don't agree with him or his general approach. However he was an advocate for "Free Speech" an actual "Free Speech Absolutist" he also did things for the sole purpose of getting attention and making people mad. Like I said I don't agree with any of that, but that's who he was.
Also there is an often not spoken about tend from the 1970s mainly in Europe that kind of softened and downplayed the damages caused by NAMBLA-type stuff. Back then just overall people tended to have more lax rules about older men and underage girls in "relationships" as well. We know better now and this is far from acceptable and the age of consent has gone up/there is more social taboo regarding this type of thing.
In the 1970s in and the US Europe you had all sorts of otherwise rational people jumping with pretty intensely horrible views regarding this subject.
To get a window into the thinking in Germany post war here is an example. Warring it's pretty horrible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Kentler